I know I’ve done a newsletter on this problem before at the start of September, but it really did hit me again over the weekend just how dangerous these overhead speed camera gantries are.
I was driving up to Northampton on Saturday just after mid-day and the traffic was running just fine on the 4 lanes of the M1 (if a little slowly for the conditions, at an average speed of about 68mph, due no doubt to the speed cameras every few hundred yards…).
Anyway, we’re all going along just fine when suddenly, the speed limit changed from 70mph to 50mph on one gantry, and on the very next to 40mph.
So that’s 70mph to 40mph in the space of 2 gantries (just a few hundred yards, or a few seconds of driving time).
Of course everyone (including myself) hit the brakes hard.
And…predictably, there was no accident to be seen on the road ahead.
I had a think about it and I could only come up with 3 possible explanations for this weirdness. Either:
1) the speed cameras were on and they were trying to raise money to pay for the cameras;
2) the speed cameras were off and the signs were being managed incompetently;
3) the speed cameras were on and the signs were being managed incompetently.
if you can think of another explanation, please let me know…
I know I’m using strong language here, but in my opinion peoples’ lives are at risk.
Sudden braking is what causes multi-car pile ups.
If it’s an accident then that’s one thing but if it’s because of these horrible gantries springing a new speed limit on drivers out of the blue, then that’s quite another in my opinion.
And it’s irrelevant whether the cameras are live or not. It’s the result of them being there that’s the point…
It seems like a terrible irony that pro speed camera groups talk about them saving lives but here we have what — to me at least — is a blatant high speed crash hazard being created in the name of safety.
All the best,
Adam
P.S. The solution? Well at risk of repeating myself, here’s my opinion as I proposed in a previous newsletter:
Get rid of the cameras and use the gantries for something other than collecting fines.
For example, they could display messages like:
“Breakdown in lane 1 ahead, please move to outside lanes”.
Drivers would then be concentrating on moving out of the way of the breakdown and safely backing off the speed rather than stamping on the breaks to avoid a speeding ticket, and thus causing further accidents behind them.
I would think a load of bumbling idiots. I had the same on M6 south between j7 and 6. Although alonger distance between gantries it dropped 60 to 40 between 2
Adam, I am sure you have all the right contacts, so if there was no obstruction or other sensible reason for the sudden change in limits, why not take it up with them. Contacting your MP is a good idea, because when they follow it up with the authorities, the latter have to respond.
If they MUST continue to collect fines using these terrible cameras, then there should be at least a mandatory delay (say 30 s) between the limit changing and its enforcement. That gives traffic time to adjust its speed in a safe and controlled way.
I am totally against all speed cameras, as EVERYONE brake suddenly and it can be lethal!
Hi Adam
Totally agree with what you say. Out of the last 10 reduce speed signs on various motorways there was only one occasion that required it. If they can’t use them correctly then remove them. I am sure the argument they have would be ‘by reducing the speed at given times this reduces or removes traffic ques’ !
I think it’s incompetence. I’m fed up travelling allong sections of motorway where overhead gantry signs will say ‘Incident – Slow Down’ and after several signs with nothing in the road or on the hard shoulder the signs vanish. The M42 is also terrible for posting speed limits when traffic is flowing freely. There ought to be a complaints site where inaccurate use of the signage can be notified and then investigated. Probably end up like the cones hotline though – useless like most of the motorway messaging.
As you say its just another money spinner. Its like the 50mph on the M1 at the moment. On my way from Birmingham to Northampton on Saturday, the 50mph was showing and yet there were no workmen to be seen for miles. It just causes slow moving traffice for numerous junctions, and they wonder why motorists go fast when they can. Haven’t they realised that people have places to go on a time schedule?!.
Spot on. I know exactly where and what you mean.I have a drive recorder and a couple of years ago I recorded someone clearly playing with the signs, switching them on and off between 2-3 gantries, varying between 40 and national speed limit applies sign.
I’ve had first hand knowledge of this on the M6 in Birmingham, but a bigger issue is the messages that say “Incident” “Queue Ahead”, so motorists are all covering their brakes and dabbing them, and you go a few signs down the road, there is no incident, no queue… just “End”! Surely the cameras are centrally manned, and they can switch these off.
Adam,
I saw the same thing on Friday early afternoon with no real reason
2 things.
1. I advocate having a CARCAM which you use to show these hazardous incidents by sending to highways agency etc. I have had road markings, junctions etc changed for safety reasons by using the images.
2. I believe the gantry speed signs should have an amber circle advising new speed restrictions are ahead followed by the red circle further on where the speed restriction is in effect. This gives advance warning and allows the traffic to adapt in a timely manner.
Totally agree with you Adam. I recently had to pick a vehicle up from a place called Hockley nr London and drive back to Manchester having to travel firstly on the M25.What a complete nightmare! I enjoy driving and I enjoy driving respectfully fast but to have these gantries flashing 50 then 40 then 60 then back to 40 is absolutely ludicrous and dangerous. In total agreement with you – get rid.!!!
Look, the government of the time created this when they allowed the Police to keep the loot from speeding fines. So we now have the situation where the Police have a choice.
1. Deploy officers to regular crimes and drain the Police funding, or
2. Deploy a gazillion cameras and use those to raise revenue.
Let me ask, what would you have done? Yep, exactly the same as the police have. Camera vans, gantry cameras, average speed cameras, if it can detect speeding them they are on to it. I would have done exactly the same thing in that position. What’s needed is a change in the law to they don’t keep the loot from speeding offences.
Better yet, how about going back to the old way of Traffic Police being a completely separate division and use camera revenue to ONLY fund marked patrol cars.
I have no objection to above board policing, I don’t think any right-thinking person does. What we object to is the blatant corrupt manipulation of the rules and increasing use of covert cars/cameras to generate revenue.
Political policy change is needed in order to put this right.
I’ve had the unfortunate experience of sudden changes in speeds and lower at the next gantry.
The accidents are waiting to happen, I’ve seen many near ones.
Not every gantry has cameras which is useful to know if you’re regularly on the road, but its the non regulars that are caught unaware.
I think they will never go, I’ve seen flashes on the other side many times, only once for me and that was the A1, totally missed the camera.
While I agree that these temporary speed limits can be a nuisance (especially when there turns out to be no apparent reason for them), I think your driving reaction (“hit the brakes hard”) is much more dangerous. There should be no need to brake at all under these circumstances, and it might even be construed as driving without due care. Simply lifting your foot off the accelerator is enough to drop your speed to the new limit well within “a few hundred yards”.
I totally agree with your comments. Use of these gantries in such a way that is potentially dangerous is blatantly irresponsible but not unknown from UK Police seeking to impose their interpretation of traffic laws.
have seen a rear end shunt because of this between a van and a car,i drive a truck for a living,and trying to bring your speed down fully loaded in a short space is not on,a matter of time before someone is killed.the first gantery were the speed limit is shown should not have cameras on it,to give people time to get the speed down.
Adam
Re your suggestion “Breakdown in lane 1 ahead, please move to outside lanes” – it would be even more helpful if they said (for instance) – 2.7 miles ahead. One of my biggest gripes is when they start warning of an accident ahead and need to change lanes when the accident turns out to be 10 miles or more ahead.
Could not agree more on the M62 between Bradford and Leeds M1 Junction there is seven Speed cameras and Fourteen Gantries for Giving messages could loose your driving licence in the 10 miles these cover
While I agree that these temporary speed limits can be a nuisance (especially when it turns out there’s no apparent reason), I think your driving reaction (“hit the brakes hard”) is much more dangerous. There should be no need to brake at all in these circumstances; it might even be construed as driving without due care. Simply lifting off from the accelerator should be enough to slow your car to the the lower limit well within “a few hundred yards”.
Have you thought of asking them why this happens rather than just making speculative assumptions?
Dependant on what answer you get should determine whether you go off on one?
I have to agree with your blog they need to look at the way the germans do it
This is clear and blatant abuse of government backed revenue collection scheme. I believe the gantries are being manipulated by an anonymous desk jockey.
Until someone or a body is appointed to properly address road users concerns, this will only get worse as the system’s desire for cash becomes reliant on revenues. Evidence would suggest it is already target driven.
How long for a whistleblower?!!
There is exactly the same situation near Junction 26 (M1) Nottinghan,. I agree the gantries should be put to more informative use. Additionally there is a 50mph limit for 20 miles North of Junction 28 for roadworks. Why they have to do these long stretches causing frustration and delay is beyond me. There is nobody working on most of, so why can’t they say do a couple of miles or a MAXIMUM of 5 miles at a time.
I agree with you – it’s what happens on my satnav in France where I regularly drive. Useful messages in English! Overhead gantries are almost useless, partly because they cry wolf too often.
I could not agree with you more. And it isn’t just overhead gantries that cause such probems as speed signs are just as bad – 50mph to 30mph and then a speed camera 100 yards ahead, hardly allowing time to slow down.
I could not agree with you more. And it isn’t just overhead gantries that cause such problems as speed signs are just as bad – 50mph to 30mph and then a speed camera 100 yards ahead, hardly allowing time to slow down.
I guess these facilities are under the control of the Highways Agency.
It would be interesting to see what their response would be to your comments.
C.c. To ‘Brake’ the road safety charity.
Agree absolutely. Similar thing happens on the A43 between Towcester and Northampton. There is a bridge on a straight section of dual carriageway where there are junctions. It is a favoroute spot for the mobile revenue sorry safety camears. Most local people are aware of it so the speed on this section is normally around 70 mph. Even at this speed as soon as people spot the van therey brake hard down to 60 and swerve into the inside lane. I have witnessed so many near multiple car pile ups as a result of this I have lost count. Sooner or later it will happen. i am sure when it does happen the van will quickly drive off, erase all camera tapes and deny they were ever there. Yest another example of where making money is more important than preventing a serious accident.
One day it will lead to a fatal accident. And one day the relatives of the person who died will sue whatever quango is responsible for faulty operation of the signs. Maybe we’ll have to wait until then for sense to prevail.
excuses could include –
“its a elf n safety initiative guv”
testing drivers reaction time in the event of an accident
checking “offence” rate variations with speed changes and distances markers
Perhaps you could ask a freedom of information act question as to why they were displaying the reduced limit at that time and also do the police or whoever manage that cameras if they have any info on accidents adjacent to the cameras!
I agree completely. These sudden arbitrary speed limit changes are dangerous.
But the is a long term problem with the whole remote camera, issue fine system. It undermines the legitimacy of law in general. Highly dangerous. Europe caught the disease between the World Wars in the 20th century. Italy, Germany, Spain etc. succumbed.
If the advocates of these cameras are really sincere about their necessity for “safety” then they won’t object to the following suggestion to enhance public perception of their legitimacy:
1. The budget for running the cameras should come from general funds only.
2. NONE OF THE FINES SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ANY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT NOR THE CONTRACTORS RUNNING THE SYSTEM, but should be placed in, say, a charitable fund to be used, perhaps, to compensate victims of uninsured drivers – use your imagination.
The same should apply to parking fines and anything that is imposed without a proper, presumption of innocence, trial.
The above suggestion would remove the taint of the system’s inherent conflict of interest. I wonder how many local authorities etc. would be so keen to use these cameras if they could not benefit from the fines.
SCOPE FOR A MAJOR CAMPAIGN?
I totally agree. I was on the m25 3 weeks ago two weeks in a row – both times the gantry speed limits changed from 70 to 60 then to 50 then to 40 within a very short distance but then it went back up to 50 then up and down this went on from the Gatwick exit all the way to just passed the m40. Warnings of congestion all the way where there was a small amount at the heAthrow exit only! The second time there were lots of 60 mph warnings and once again no accidents or congestion. It’s driving me mad and also makes me ignore all the warnings as they are so often inaccurate or out of date. And all those signs distract me from the road.
same thing happened to me, with a car tail gating. So although I was quick on the brakes I didn’t want the idiot behind me to run into me, so when does the camera get turned on, as I was approx 300 yrds from gantry and could not meet the sudden 50 mph.
I have been involved with driving HGVs and PSVs for 52 years and thank god now retired. Drving used to be a fantastic job all over UK and EUROPE but now it is just a RAT RACE. My car you can hardly see my dashboard for speed camera detectors and camera recording what is happening in front of me and one recording what is going on behind me so I do not have any argument who was at fault when as you say you have to make a sudden reduction in speed for any of there money making cameras or any of there other money grabbing gadgets they should all be banned and give us German speed limits.
Quite agree – these gantry cameras are nothing but a fundraising menace and should be binned. Of course, their presence merely reinforces one’s contempt for the authorities and their efforts to extort cash from the driver.
I’ve experienced this on the M25 I think the highways agency would argue it’s done to relieve congestion further ahead.
I also think the same thing as you did it’s a money making plan.
This made me laugh! one afternoon in August I was coming home on the M25 ahead of me I could see the sky was black. it was pouring down with rain in the distance. Instead of a message saying poor visibility the overhead gantry signs read FOG! I was puzzled how could there be fog. Then when I was in the storm I realised what they were trying to say but didn’t have enough letters or space to write a fuller message.
The speed cameras are delayed by one minute after speed indicator changes on an over head gantry :-
6. The speed limit changed just as I passed under the electronic sign, so I had no time to reduce my speed.
When a mandatory speed limit changes on the overhead AMI signal, there is an automatic one minute delay before enforcement can begin against the newly displayed limit. The flash units can still activate during this period, even though the new limit would not be enforced. In this situation, drivers are not expected to brake sharply, but rather to reduce their speed so that they are within the speed limit as soon as it is safe to do so. “
I absolutely AGREE with you. I’ve also seen this happen on the M6 near Birmingham too.
Another example is the A13 going towards central London, it’s a 50mph limit but just as you approach the poplar flyover (Newham way), the speed limit reduces to 30mph!!! with 6 average speed cameras to catch you!.
Pro speed camera groups – what a JOKE!, In my opinion SAFETY is the LAST thing on their USELESS minds!.
6. The speed limit changed just as I passed under the electronic sign, so I had no time to reduce my speed.
When a mandatory speed limit changes on the overhead AMI signal, there is an automatic one minute delay before enforcement can begin against the newly displayed limit. The flash units can still activate during this period, even though the new limit would not be enforced. In this situation, drivers are not expected to brake sharply, but rather to reduce their speed so that they are within the speed limit as soon as it is safe to do so.
I believe these cameras are there to generate fines.Signs could tell drivers of problems ahead and give speed limits. Fleece the motorist is the name of the game.
The same has happened to me, on the M5 bristol area they have installed a mass of over head gantries and they seem to be constanly changing the speed limit for no reason.
I had exactly the same experience yeaterday (Sunday) around 6.30pm coming up from East Mids Airport to Junc 27. It said there had been “An Incident”, but when we got to the Nat. Limit sign there had been no sign of anything. I think it’s a money making scam! jc
If they were designed for safety they would do a different job.
I drive a car around 40k miles per year and have seen quite a few near misses due to speed cameras/heavy braking -even when the drivers were not speeding in the first place.
If you want a safer road system get more patrol cars on the road not less but then pretend to bolster “safety” with fine collecting cameras, after all it is supposed to be about safety and not money.
And any argument against speed cameras come under money vs common sense, which do you think will win every time.
Just came up with a good idea, why not allow for 15 points but with no fine,and when you hit 15 points you HAVE to stop driving, first time for x weeks, next time x months, but no excuses as it seems that if you are loaded and go to court with good representation and can afford a big fine then you are OK to keep your licence and keep speeding/driving.
That’s me vented.
Totally agree with you all the way Adam. Just recently had a nightmare of a journey on the M3,M25, M26,M20.Speed resriction on every single gantry.
changing from 60 to 40 (where you are then at a stop) to 50 to 40 to 50 to 60 to no restriction to suddenly 40, everyone slammed on their brakes ABS coming into to play, a miracle no one hit anyone, me included. Absolutely no reason for all the speed restrictions and as usual once they ended the were no delays at all as everyone could drive at their own speed instead of bunching us up all together and causing in my opinion traffic congestion of the worst possible scenario, as you are more concerned with checking your speedometer than the road. My 2.5hr journey took 4.5 hrs.
This has been happening on the M42 for years. Often drivers are faced with a sudden drop in the speed limit only for it to be reversed half a mile later. All for no apparent reason.
It is gross incompetence as far as I can see. The is no one to complain to and no one is held accountable for the accidents they have no doubt caused.
I agree 100%, I am a regular driver on the M1 going South from Coventry and daily ( until the new barrier replacement works appeared last 2 weeks) from Jcts 17 to 15, the speed seems to be always restricted to 50 or 40 MPH for no reason at all, no accident or lane closure etc, or evidence of gantry speed cameras here but as usual no explanation why, anyone who knows a bit of maths or “queuing” theory will appreciate that such an unnecessary speed restriction means that at some point further up the m/way traffic will be at a standstill causing frustration, queue jumping etc.
I think this is sheer incompetency and given the massive spend on this information boards clear explanation why speeds have been reduced will encourage better safer driving.
It would not be so bad if the gantry speed limits had any reference to the conditions at the time. Certainly on A1 South of Peterborough they are on for no reason at all and no one takes any notice of them!!
Hi Adam,
Completely agree, as the same situation arises on the M25, the signs are displaying speed limits but there is no reason for these limits to be imposed, ie no accident, breakdowns, no roadworks,as an example the other evening I was travelling back from Guildford towards Dartford on the M25, just after 21.30 the signs were displaying restricted speeds, and we all slowed down except for one driver who ignored the speed and was flashed, the signs were obviously alight for the roadworks that were in the process of being put out, but no lanes were coned off, so could he argue that the restricted speed was not required??
No the cameras well. They seem to have a strange idea of congestion. The use of the cameras is at best arbitrary and not related to either traffic congestion or time. In my opinion it is simply based on revenue collected.
I suspect that it’s sheer thoughtlessness/incompetence on the part of the operators. On a sideways topic Adam, your updates for the speed cameras on the northern half of the M25 seem to be rather out. It’s been bugging me for a few months now – I don’t get the ‘Speed camera ahead’ warning until I am actually going under the gantry with the cameras on which inevitably causes a reflex braking on my part … not a good situation at all. I don’t know whether they have moved the cameras or the geopositions are wrong but perhaps you could have a look at this for me? Many thanks.
I totally agree. There is a historic and current obsession by the authorities to use the motoring public as a cash cow. Plainly ‘this must stop’ and some common sense be used instead of the dogma which permeates the public sector.
Nothing wrong with gantry-mounted speed limits when appropriate. However, I agree that suddenly lighting up these with no warning could indeed cause an accident. How about if the first gantry in the series displayed a warning “Slow down – speed limit ahead” and then the second and subsequent gantries reducing the limit as necessary.
Another bleed the motorist easy targets
Agree with your proposals completely.
The new variable speed limits imposed at Magor near Cardiff on the M4 copy this practice with the danger of similar pileups occurring (or collecting a lot of fines)
How about starting a petition through this site ?
Hi Adam,I cant think of another explanation either, but maybe you should contact the Institute of Advanced Motorists for their opinion, afterall their raison d’etre is all about driving safely.
All the best,
Mark.
Just a money making racket
Yes Adam totally agree if you were for warned about what is going on ahead as to accidents, breakdowns, obstructions, slow moving vehicles even just the speed of the vehicles in from with approximate distances it would be far more helpful letting you adjust your speed/driving accordingly. That way depending on what you are driving at the time you can make the best decision for your actions for that vehicle as there are a lot of differences in the braking distances.
I agree entirely
Hi Adam i agree wholeheartedly – it happens so often it can only be someones incompetance, surely the powers that be wouldn’t do it just to collect money.
Would they?
Whilst complaining about overhead information, have you ever been annoyed by the bad English seen on most motorways, such as: “DON’T PHONE WHILE DRIVING”.There is no interchangeability between ‘while’ and ‘whilst’. If I am going to be advised I would prefer it to be in good English.
I also had a similar instance on the M25 where the speed on the overhead gantry went from 70 to 50. Unfortunately some drivers slammed on their brakes creating a hugely dangerous situation. It is a genuine life threatener. Driving past the cameras there was no obvious cause for the sudden change from 70 to 50.
regards
Julian
Regards
When the speed cameras signify a change in speed, there is a 30 second lapse before they start recording cars exceeding the signified speed. I think this is not very well known and the message should be spread more widely.
I’ve experienced changes like this they are dangerous in my opinion too also I have seen different displays on single gantries by that I mean lane one X two nothing blank not even lit; 3 50; 4 50. Clearly lane two was not working and that is really hazardous. And there was no reason whatsoever for any display that I saw.
Couldn’t agree more. Travelling into Edinburgh daily from Fife I expect traffic queues, but sensible driving can allow speeds between 50 and 60 to speed up flow. The overhead signs warn of queues (duh) but restrict speeds to 40. These remain in place based on time of day, it seems, rather than actual traffic volumes. And, of course, speed cameras aplenty are in place to ensure that we all toe the line drawn by incompetent idiots.
I think there is more roads like this. I is “3 in 1” . There is so many stupid ignorants in this world. I will always take any case to the court. Good luck to all drivers…….xxxx
I agree with getting rid of money raising so called safety camera’s unfortunatley it is the way things are going world wide it is a big brother state every move we make is monitored by mobile phone signals that track our every move!
Apparantly the Tracker systems used in our vehicles the data logs where the car is what speed it is doing it won’t be long before a computer works out when a road speed has been exceeded and issues a fine and enforcement !
The Camera is the least of our worries!
totally agree with all your comments Adam, Another reason i could think of is , there was a problem earlier and they haven’t been diligent enough to alter the speed limit ! However, in my opinion it’s a money grabbing scenario to trick drivers, changing speed limits so quickly is irresponsible and reckless, especially as there was no Problem !! absolutely Scandalous !!
Adam, Yes I agree, I travelled up from London to Nuneaton and used the M1 before joining the M6, and yes there were speed restrictions for no apparent reason. And I found my self looking in my rear view mirror after every gantry(couldnt help myself) to see if there was a camera there.
It may be partly money thing. But this Big Brother control thing seems to be spreading into every sphere.
I have this problem when using the M42 , lucky for me I have Talex Max & Tom Tom to warn me of cameras .
I agree with every word you have written and as an ex policeman to me this is absolute madness. A accident in the making.
So very true but when ever I try and take it up with the powers that be I get a very stereo type reply. So how can we take this further especially the comment the signs were being managed incompetently and also with lack of accurate information; which appears to be happening ALL OF THE TIME also important messages that are incomplete or make no sense. Please lets take this further. To have it sorted out sooner rather than later. Nipped in the bud before it escalates and is accepted as normal by the powers that be.
Mike Wylie
On occasions I have to use the m25 which has variable speed limit signs.the same problem occurs here.all the traffic can be moving ok and then it grinds to a halt, as soon as you pass the last sign the traffic moves fine again.as you say there is never any indication of a problem.the laughable aspect of this is the matrix sign advises congestion.how stupid do they think people are, at the end of the day it is obvious that the signs are the cause of the problem and not a solution.the idea of motorways are to let traffic move not to keep slowing it down and stopping it.how long will it be before somebody decides the traffic is still moving too much and decides the only to complete the carnage is to put speed bumps on our motorways. Somebody should challenge the highways agency to leave these useless signs off unless there is a proper emergency and see what the effect is.i would say they probably wouldn’t as they have cost a lot of money to install them so they must be used.the people that come up with these ideas are supposed to be intelligent but it appears they have the brains of a rocking horse.ifhou continually cause people to brake and slow down the traffic will eventually come to a standstill and maybe cause rear end accidents, of which you see quite a few.thats got that off my chest.it all smacks of megalomania.
Maybe the warning signs for ‘Speed Cameras’ should be changed to ‘Revenue Collection Cameras’!
You have made an important point. Please send it to transport dept and your M.P.
The laxity of Vosa in failing to switch off signs means that most advisory ones are ignored. Insist on an investigation into why the speed limits were imposed
Kindest regards
Rod
I’ve said for a long time, why not go the whole hog and re-introduce the man with the red flag. These speed camera fanatics may then be happy.
I agree with everything you have written.
In total agreement with you as always , make the cyclist pay for something they use the roads they have seem to have more rights over the car , all so make them ride with lights as the law require .
Totally agree, and I’ve got proof that cameras are simply for highway robbery. I’ve also found a way of avoiding most camera prosecutions at no cost.
This is happening on the M25 between J27 (M11) and Dartford Tunnel – regularly, with no obvious cause. They have just introduced Cameras in this stretch and have been progressively painting the white grid lines on the road, which are used in conjunction with the cameras. First they appeared in the 2 ‘fast’ lanes but are springing up like mushrooms over night in the other ‘slower’ lanes. Part of the reason, I believe for the rather curt notices on many displays on the motorways is due the requirement by the Dept. of transport to have no more than 6 words or destinations on any road sign. This is backed up by scientific research in the 1960-70s based on reading speeds by motorists, the speed of the vehicle and the height of the letters on the signs- needed to allow the motorist to understand the information.
The gantries could perhaps be put to what I believe might be their best use:
When there are no dangers to warn of let them read” empty lane to your left? Yes = you are in the wrong lane!
I use the M1 between MK and Luton daily, the left lane is often the quickest due to appalling lane discipline!
Sudden braking in the event of a non emergency is caused by not paying attention and/or driving too close, don’t get me wrong I’m a user of your equipment but you can’t always blame the speed camera.
When we came back from holiday in Sept 2013, we took an airport taxi from Gatwick to Heathrow. When we came to gantry-reduced speed units, the driver continued at 70-ish despite the posted speed if 40/50.
I asked him about it and he said the cameras were always set at 70. An airport taxi driver would quickly find out if his theory was wrong.
Now I am looking or someone to test the theory. Or there may be another explanation such as cloned plates that he didn’t want to mention.
But he never went much above 70.
Totally agree re above, just a shame that my Talex Wikango wasn’t showing the lengthy 50mph average speed camera zone running past Northampton until the last couple near the M6/M1 junction. Also lack of data re other average speed cameras further up on M1? I thought the new Talaex updated itself?
They have the same problem in Bristol only traffic bunches up and it can take an hour to get through Bristol on the m5 at one journey the tail back was to Michael Wood services this as only made it worse since they installed the over head cameras
This is what it seems all about these days, catch out the ordinary innocent party and clobber him. How often have you been doing say 70 and the posh high speed vehicle passes you at high speed and they all still keep coming.
How often have you just passed an exit point and then on the over head gantry you get advice of say an accident, no one uses their intelligence to advise on the previous gantry so you can take action or leave the signs up when they apply to nothing. We could all keep going on abot this topic.
Probably these crazy variable speed limit signs are operated by complete loonies who, while watching on CCTV try to cause an accident!
Yesterday, driving south on A1M from M62. 50mph then 40 mph then road clear. No obstructions seen. Signs controlled by idiots.
Could not agree more Adam. The danger these gantries present is surely self evident. I myself followed a car west on M4 Saturday evening that braked every time a gantry was evident & as the driver refused to leave lane 3 had no option to undertake like several other drivers.
Drivers need educating on lane discipline & the law needs clarifying with regard to Motorway Cameras & the use of these gantry cameras.
I thought new regulations had been introduced for Tailgating & Incorrect use of lanes……
Oh wait, that needs a Police patrol to do that not an indiscriminate camera.
From experience the management of the speed limits is appalling.
Sometimes you can have 4 or 5 gantries showing 50mph with no sign of any issues. If they want people to actually take notice, they have to get their act together.
The ones on the M1 sound appalling and somehow need to be stopped. As you say a money making exercise.
Also the new ones on the M25. From what I understand the area these stealth cameras are used in is where the highways authority no longer maintain that stretch of motorway.
There’s no need to hit the brakes suddenly when speed signs on M1 gantries change (unless you’re in close proximity to a police car). The camera trigger thresholds don’t appear to be linked to the variable signs, hence if you’re travelling at say 75mph and the sign suddenly changes to 50mph you won’t be flashed if you didn’t have time to slow down before passing the camera.
Totally agree…..Same thing happened to me near Birmingham and the lorry on my inside took avoiding action into my lane causing me to brake even harder not sure what the driver 2 cars lengths behind thought!! Definately a near miss….but no reason for speed decrease.
Adam – I agree 100 percent and I think you are correct in assuming they are being used as ‘ cash cows ‘
Keep up the good work !
Phil
I say again, write 100 times it’s “brakes not breaks” and hand it in before class tomorrow.
Rgds
This happens all the time with no explanation.
I think it`s probably some halfwit in a little control room somewhere trying to play God.
Having a laugh at our expense.
I was on the M62 just last Friday and in the space of quarter of a mile there where 3 gantries.
The first displayed 60..The second displayed 40..And the third displayed END but the road was otherwise clear (except for cars slowing down for the signs.
Because it was on a curved part of the road and on the brow of an hill you couldn`t see all three gantries at once.
I have always said the motorways are controlled probably to cause congestion and to get peoples back up..Don`t ask me why I don`t know but everything seems to geared up to raise peoples blood pressure.
These what they call managed motorways are an absolute waste of money as all,they do is cause unnecessary hold ups and potential accidents. Lord Mawhinney who help set them up as the minister of transport in the mid nineties calls them an expensive waste of money admitting they do not work ,wishing he had never started them up.
Speed cameras are purely for filling coffers, when Swindon stopped using them accidents went down and other countries have ditched them and have saver roads. We have to keep more of an eye on the speedo than the road.
I agree this happened to me over the weekend going to pick the inlaws up from manchester airport on the M6 the speed dropped from 70 mph to 40 over1gantry defo trying to get you done speeding or trying to cause an accident.
Seems like we’ve got a bunch of idiots that don’t know anything about driving running the transport department. Ever since we past our tests we were told not to break on the motorway but our lives are being put at risk in the name of revenue collection. It seems
obviously they don’t care about our safety.
Can’t you get the drive solicitor to write to authorities asking reason and pointing out the incompetance of the act and potential results if such an action.
I recently had a conversation with a senior Police officer in court recently about the same question, I was assured that the sudden changing of speed limits on the M6 around Birmingham was in accordance with the Home Office rules, as you know we are plagued with these dammed things.on M6 and M42.
The signs/speed limits are forgotten about, and just left on – long after hazard or accident has been cleared. I’ve encountered many examples of lane closure signs/accident ahead etc, long after they were needed. best one was fog at 2pm on a Sunday!
Can’t you get the drive solicitor to write to authorities asking reason and pointing out the incompetent act and potential results if such an action.
Hi Adam,
I would think it was to get revenue. I think it is extremely dangerous to suddenly drop the speed by 20mph as there could quite easily have been a muliple pile of vehicles and serious injuries to those involved if not fatal.
I think there should be a warning that the speed is dropping rather than to all of a sudden just change it, as it takes time to slow down safely without causing accidents. It is a shame there is nobody to complain to, not that they would pay any attention unless of course it involved them (or their families) directly.
The problem as I see it is not the need for speed restriction when there are workmen present. But these speed restrictions are left turned on even when there is no work being carried on! Any speed restriction should be made invalid if there is no work being progressed!
I totally agree with you adam I see this on the m4 all the time.
What I tend to do is if I see one of these gantries, I then look further ahead and anticipate a reduction in speed. This way a sudden change to 40 is not sudden to me but gradual. Everyone else just overtakes and either brakes hard at the gantries or takes no notice whatsoever. Another point to note is when advance notice is given about a lane closure and you get the 2 gantries with move left signs on followed by multiple signs with the red x alerting drivers that the lane is now closed. Drivers insist on continuing until they are forced in by cones. This is dangerous driving to a T. Rant over.
May we have an explanation from the minister of transport ?
I agree adam, these things just cause accidents.
This happens on a regular basis on the M42 & M6 where the overhead signs are on indicating a speed of 60 then 50 and then a drop to 30 for one overhead camera only which was active and several vehicles were flashed for speeding .
I know there are a lot of roadworks during the night on both motorways but this night there were none. I’m sure they do it just to raise money to pay for the cameras.
It’s wrong that motorist are caught out in this way surely this is acase of entrapment by the operators of these sign just to raise revenue.
I too have been caught out by the sudden speed changes of these gantry signs and it did indeed cause me to brake suddenly which in turn suprised the driver behind who may not have seen it or reacted differently, I always react to these signs as I am really keen to avoid any chance of getting a speeding fine, I believe they are a safety risk and were put there as a way make revenue not to improve on safety.
WHY ! WHY ! is it neccesary to have them EVERY few Hundred yards
MONEY MAKING AGAIN
M25 JUST AS BAD.
I travel the M1 and M6 at all hours of the day and night. I find the traffic info on the gantries appalling.
I get “40 MPH congestion ” flashing for 10 miles at 03 AM in the morning followed by END with no sign of any problem !! Last month I was held in 30 MPH traffic on an empty M1 with “oncoming vehicle” flashing for 20 miles followed by END.
I think that there needs to be somebody with a red hot poker in the highways agency control room to sort things out and give accurate and valid information,
I agree entirely last week I was on the M42 South of Birmingham the gantries changed from 50 to 40 and back to 50, 3 times in the space of 4 miles. There was no accident, no back up on a slip road and no heavy volume of traffic.I have had this nearly every time I have used this road in the past 6 Months.
Could have been an accident now cleared but left on. Again incompetence. Before the addition of cameras they had such a bad reputation for displaying out of date information they were generally ignored.
One local to me was left at reduced speed for 24 hours after the accident has been cleared
I agree with you entirely with mismanaged motorways.i came on at junc 26 m62 heading east the limit was at 60.the next gantry showed 40 next 50.clear day no heavy traffic.after junc 27 thick fog 70 mph you could not make it up!
Not sure if its true but was always led to believe that the cameras (on M25)only work on a posted speed limit so on an empty road if you putting up 60mph you actively turns them on and start generating some cash!!!!
In my professional life I drove about 1000 miles a week and I can only agree with you Adam. On numerous occasions I had to brake hard to avoid others ahead who had also had to brake suddenly due to the speed limit signs dropping in 20mph incremnts. Surely at the very least they could start the messages much further back and (just a thought) reducing each message by 5mph in order to safely ease the traffic into a lower speed ?
In my view they were just trying to make more money.
Almost every time I am on the motorway, there are flashing signs warning about something that is not there.
That is INCOMPETENCE on the part of the motorway controllers and is the reason that most drivers ignore the signs.
spot on adam. pile-ups are bound to happen in time due to rapid changes in speedlimits. i wonder if the existence of unnecessary changes in the speedlimits could be challenged in court in the event of multiple crashes, and lets face it most 40 and 50mph restrictions are unnecessary.
Just as distracting as 400 foot turbines by a roundabout at MITCHELL near Truro !
I agree with all you say about these cameras.I have had the same problem on the M25.Whoever is responsible for turning these signs on or off should do the job properly or be prosecuted when they cause accidents.
When are you going to learn the difference between BRAKES and BREAKS?
I do know if anyone phones in to report an object / debris on the motorway the speed limit is reduced to 50MPH ASAP in the sections /sections that it may/may not be in, some drivers are very vague when they report something so several miles might be covered by this. Only when the authorities have checked the whole section will the resume the speed limit to 70 (if they remember to tell the correct departments lol). I agree that it would be good to notify drivers of say lane 4 closed due to an accident, but this was the case the other day on the M25 and the lane closed signs were also on in this lane for two gantries, before the fire tenders etc dealing with the incident BUT despite this and the majority moving over several motorists were still driving down the closed lane, not heeding the warning and upsetting others by cutting in at the last moment.
The same problem exists on the M25 clockwise between 15 and16 late at night.
Time and time again I leave Heathrow late evening when there is very little traffic. To find the same four gantries showing a speed limit.The first two always show 60mph the third one 40 mph causing the few vehicles that are on the
Road to brake only to find the fourth gantry showing 60 mph again.all the gantries after this are unlit therefore the 60 mph limit is then in effect all the way round the M25 unless you find one lit further round.
exactly the same experience on Sunday on the M1 between Junctions 9 & 11 at around 5:30pm and again at just after 9pm going the other way.
No accident or obstruction on either occasion but speed limits suddenly reducing to 60 and then 50 and then 40.
Martyn
Totally agree with you Adam, these sudden changes in speed limit are what CAUSES accidents as every driver tries desperately to avoid getting caught on camera.
Totally STUPID waste of people’s time trying to argue the case FOR these damned things. They are there to TRAP motorists and make money!
I thought that they were automatically adjusted by the computer which monitors traffic flow. Sounds as if they are being overridden. Why do humans have to get involved?
I totally agree with the blog it is irrational. Though there has to be some curb on the idiots who overtake, undertake, on the hard shoulder at speeds in excess of 80mph on the M6 West Midlands. They pay no attention to gantries or cameras.
Absolutely dangerous! It seems like cash raising. Similar to the police who appear from no where and point their gun at you – slam the brakes on in case there is an accident ahead only to find out they were trying to stop you if you were speeding!
Adam, Please raise a e-petition on this as I am sure Many Many motorists would wish for either the rules to be changed, or the notice of any speed change lengthened, or better still, your own suggestion.
Please pursue this on our behalf, as you are in a unique position to suggest this with your database, and connections etc.
Best regards Clive.
I had a slightly different situation a couple of weeks ago on the A1. The ‘Traffic Advice’ signs indicated the road was closed beyond a certain junction. I was heading north and signs were indicating at least 20 miles south of Leeds. Some signs repeated the message, others didn’t. I left the A1 at Scotch Corner, Guess what? There was no closure, but I and doubtless others were thinking about what alternatives were available. I was driving alone so there was no chance of consulting a map.
These signs are a menace and a huge waste of money. They give false, misleading and outdated messages. Time they were switched off.
i agre how about starting a petition that a any money raised goes to local councils for local road improvements
or prefereble to a charity of the nations choice
Your spot on Adam, i was rear-ended on the M1 earlier this year due to this very scenario.
here here could,nt agree more with david barnett , but they all should be removed anyway , i can remember those good old days when these money grabbing things was, nt there, ah they were the days
Same on M4 Cardiff by Celtic Manor. Changes from 50 to 40 going down hill around the bend. Also watch out for speed changes prior to tunnel.
Absolutely agree these are a danger. Not so bad if speed is reduced just once, but different gantries often show different speeds – both higher and lower. Too much concentration is given over to watching the gantries instead of watching traffic in front of you.
I travel all over the UK and cover 70,000+ miles a year. These gantry systems should only be used for information only. The camera’s are there only for generating revenue. There is no reason why they can’t just display a recommended speed limit i.e. no red circle. I’ve seen it loads of times, incident ahead, then nothing. Bunch of money grabbing B*#”^&ds.
I’ve had several potentially dangerous encounters with or because of these overhead gantries on “managed motorways.”
1. Several weeks ago on the M1 Northbound from Dunstable/Luton to Toddington, overhead gantry clearly indicated to use hard shoulder due to congestion so I did. Within a few hundred yards, campervan in front of me indicated right and pulled out into the first lane and I saw a broken down car on the hard shoulder, however, the car immediately in front of the campervan didn’t recognize the problem soon enough and had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the broken down car. As it was, his back end slewed out into the first lane and as I passed I noticed it was a local taxi whose driver was daydreaming. There was no warning about this blockage which could have resulted in a serious smash and hours of closed M1 to sweep up the mess.
2. M4 westbound at Newport going down the hill which has moderately tight curves and several bridges and other structures crossing the motorway actually obscure some of the speed warnings until only 60 or 70 yards from them. I have also noticed with these that in the morning with the sun at your back, the reflection off these signs makes them very difficult to read.
3. M6 southbound in the roadworks a few weeks ago with so many different limits being displayed that it’s probably better to stick to the slowest speed displayed as you’re forever accelerating and braking. There was on spot at the very end of the roadworks that the overhead gantry displayed 40mph with a national speed limit sign next to the gantry indicating 70! I wish.
Im a hgv driver and the speed camera`s are always changing for no reason at all, they say accident? nothing there, debris in the road?? nothing there, incident??? nothing there?? bofoons the lot of them, then in my,(Derbyshire M1) area which is now being upgraded to a smart motorway???? god help us, an accident waiting to happen.
While the use of Gantries, Cones, Speed variations, etc, are designed to restrict vehicle speed, in order to save accidents, & lives. It is the operators, Police & local councils (who give permission) that are the ones who abuse the systems. There must be a set of Rules for all Systems & their use’s. Request a copy of all such documents. If they refuse, then make the request under ” The Freedom of information Act”
I must add my opinion of the problem.
It has nothing to do with signs, Camera’s, Gantries, etc.
DRIVERS ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME.
KEEP A SAFE DISTANCE IN RELATION TO YOUR SPEED, & STAY ALERT. It could be an Animal or person running out in front of you !!!! Then there are no Signs.
Always Drive on the Left, do not Hog the Road Lanes. Keep two hands on the wheel, Do not Smoke, Eat, Drink, or!! While driving.
YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE! could be You causing the Accident.
On the 4th of October I must attend a speed awareness Lecture.
Why? because I was doing 70mph on the M6 between j4&j3a.
The gantry speed limit was 60mph.
I came on at J4.
Hi had the same problem, it was very dangerous, I am sick to deaf with uneccasary speed restrictions. Educating people how to drive is the only solution, out of the 4 lanes available the inside lanes had very little traffic and were moving faster than the outside lane. Traffic was up to 60 then standstill apart from the inside lanes.
I have witnessed near misses on the M25 when for no apparent reason the Speed sign change to 50 mph and the outside lane ground to a halt as a result of the panic to slow. There was absolutely no obstruction or queue ahead and it seemed an act of deliberate whimsy.
Similarly when travelling on the M1 the speed sign changed from 60mph to 40mph at the Hemel Hempstead junction for no discernable reason. At this junction one can see far up the approaching hill and there was no traffic jam and very little traffic. It was as though someone in the control room was “playing” with the speed limit to catch drivers out. This is outrageous. I suggest your members all sign a Downing Street Petition on the Prime Ministers website demanding that the matter to be delated in the House of Commons. This illegal tax raising need to be stopped before someone is killed as the roads turn icy. It only take a relatively few signatures to make this happen.
Said this for a while, happens on M42 as well. Very dangerous and blatant entrapment when there are no accidents or hazards in the road.
On a slightly different slant I’ve noticed recently that on the A12, from about Hackney Wick to the A13, the idiots have started using these gantry signs to display directions, identical to the information already shown on the normal road signs. This means I’m constantly distracted by them in case they have some pertinent information about congestion ahead, which may give the opportunity to take an alternative route. That’s the sort of thing they are supposed to be used for. Keeping them cluttered with normal direction signage means nobody will eventually take any notice and miss important traffic information when it does appear. I just wonder if this is happening anywhere else. I thought I read not too long ago that the government was going to remove unnecessary street furniture, not increase it.
Living in Northamptonshire I find myself frequently travelling on the M1, I cant recall a single occasion when the so called Traffic Management camera gantrys haven’t been in operation. This would also include trips between 1-6am, with such a small amount of traffic to manage it beggars the thought, entrapment! this is because of the total lack of continently…..one min it says 60 the next it says 40 all without any visible cause/reason, at such hours one should be able to make any journey (within speed limits) without camera watching every 5 minutes.
Just another point worth thinking about, at a recent speed awareness course it was stated that 23%of all accidents were attributed to excess speed. My theory is then 77% were not, what are the authorities doing about this percentage of motorists who still have accidents without the excess speed?
Dangerous speed camera gantries
What a totally accurate blog
There is a similar problem on the newly refurbished M25 past clacket lane, M23 area, the speed limit drops to 50 or 40 mph and i seem to be the only one trying to abide by it, due to the fact that there is something about average speed monitoring still in place i am aware of, and then cars and lorries are scrambling to overtake to avoid me or just tailgate me and so to me it seems safer to speed up above the limit shown
Hello Adam,
I totally agree with your comments.
The M42 gantry signs do much the same sort of thing and completely baffle motorists.
Why is nobody held to account for these problems as well as changes to road layouts and speed restrictions?
If you saw the programme on the television about the Highways Agency some of your questions may be answered as they appeared to be just another slow, lazy, incompetent quango….
Totally agree use the gantries for responsible informative up to-date and consistent messages which drivers can trust and drivers WILL act responsibly to. Speed cameras may discourage speeding but that does not relate to less accidents it just promotes the 70 MPH “I know my rights” stuck in the fast lane brigade which causes frustration and road rage
this must be to raise revenue. I wonder where all the taxes from VAT on cars fuel tax and VAT on tax, road licence tax and all car related tax goes. Perhaps they could charge foreign drivers an entry tax as on the continent, they fill up in France, why not. PS
why not start an online petition and try for 100K support to get government to take note
Dear Adam,I agree with your comments that these gantry speed cameras are Dangerous.I am an advanced driver with IAM and a Gold holder at RoSPA.It is not sensible to harshly brake at a sudden change of epeed from 70 70 40 I brake safely so that the following drivers have time to slow down.If that means a speeding ticket I would fight this in court
also driving at night being dazled more so when they flash on the opposite carridgeway
This reminds me of a case some 2 or 3 years ago in Norfolk which was reported in the media. A stranger was driving along a road and came round a bend to see a 20MPH speed limit. He braked violently not realising cars behind and a crash resulted in a fatality. At the inquest the Coroner said the death was caused by the speed limit and that he would be writing to the Home Secretary asking for its removal.
Agree. There is a stretch of the M4 at Newport with these variable speed cameras. One gantry is completely obscured until you’re nearly on it normally dropping you to 50mph for no apparent reason. They should be forced to publish accident data before and after these ‘developments’ for us to judge their effect.
I drive a classic Anglia and its a nightmare for me as it cant stop as quick as modern cars, why , if they must have these atrocities ruling our lives, dont they alter them in increments of 2 mph every 15 seconds, 70- 68- 66- 64 etc to give drivers a fighting chance of staying legal and staying alive
As we are in the EU and so is Germany why doesn’t Germany have speed limits on their Autobahns. Speed control for specific things I agree with but for basically just for the hell of it – NO WAY.
Why does the speed limit only show increments of 10 m.p.h.?
If in 5 m.p.h. or less differences would make more & safer sense.
A couple of comments have insisted there is no need to brake violently under these circumstances. I agree but what choice do you have if every vehicle in front of you does brake hard, which is what happens in the real world?
Dear Adam. Great post. Why don’t you also get GEM (Guild of Experienced Motorists) and IAM involved too. They have thousands of members between them and they are both passionate about road safety issues. I would still like to speak to you on another matter which would be of interest to you.
This nonsense happens far too frequently in Blighty; unnecessarily low ‘speed-requirements’ for prevailing traffic conditions, almost certainly effected out of incompetence and revenue-raising aims. Of course, this desensitizes drivers and alienates those that are (unreasonably) penalized.
Unfortunately ‘speed’, being the most quantifiable and emotive factor, has been made out to be the biggest problem on the roads, as opposed to rational issues… oh, and it’s the biggest cash cow – how convenient?!
I note several of your respondents mention a delay between a speed limit change and camera enforcement.
Even if this were true – I for one would not trust it. Speed limit changes, I brake – it is an automatic reaction, and I think most drivers are the same.
Cameras are dangerous – all cameras – and cannot, in fact do not, save lives – they can – and do, cost lives. Check out Idris Francis’ website – Fight back with facts.
Martyn
why don’t we use these gantry’s for info like they do on the continent, for time, temp and other road information like delays breakdowns & alternative routes.
Whilst on the subject of cash raising and “look at me aren’t I great officer”, what about the mobile phone ‘racket’. Have another officer stop a driver to accuse them of using a mobile and issue a ticket. They have the choice of paying to go on a course, pay £100 and take 3 points or go to court which costs a days pay and travel expenses etc. Most will take the cheap option of the course EVEN WHEN INNOCENT !!!!
British law is a joke.
Everything you said here is absolutely correct. I’m on the road on daily basis and drivers including myself are tempted to slam brakes on at the site of the cameras whether fixed mobile even when you are not necessarily speeding. Of course, instinctive reaction is that you slam the brake first before you even remember to check the rear mirror or look at the speedometer.
They should get rid of this taste to raise money. I would rather the Gorvernment raises direct tax on drivers rather than risk killing people for the sake of money.
Thanks guys.
Speed limits are set for a reason like it or not agree or disagree they are there to protect lives .The speed displayed on the over head gantry is governed not by the police but by traffic flow counters if the traffic is flowing in the correct manner its 70 if its slow its less these figures are worked out from prescribed details .I know the frustration I am booked to do the speed awareness course caught doing 69 on the M1 when the speed said 60 my fault not paying attention result £98.00 and 4 hours in a class room better than being dead.
Adam, suggestion: it may be an advantage for someone with the right skill-set to put in a freedon-of-information request to the powers that be who operate or who are the responisble body for operating the gantry speed cams on our moterways. The request could encompass present operating policy or instructions operators are given when changing speed and also how many tickets are generated by doings so (statisitcs). Hope some one can give this some thought as it may be quite reveiling. R
All speed cameras are a joke, the motorist should be trusted to drive to the conditions after all we have been tested and deemed competent to drive. As for the gantries if in traffic and I am forced to slow down I will but have never had to slam the brakes on. If they are on in the early hours for example I just ignore and I have never been flashed. Travel frequently on m25, m1, m6. If the powers to be we’re serious about safety why let motorists use the hard shoulder absolute joke and a death waiting to happen. These gantries are not much better.
Put a link on the e-petition so we can all share it on our social media sites.
Does anyone know if cameras go live at same time as speed limits are posted? If a gantry speed changed as a car was going under would it register?
On a recent speed awareness course it was stated that 23% of all motoring accidents were caused by excess speed, so this leads me to believe that 77% were not so what are the authorities doing about this 77%, why target the minority when there is clearly a much bigger problem. Easy money springs to mind!
I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying, frankly they need to raise revenue to pay the people who control these signs to keep everyone in a job, on a number of occasion they display signs like accident then drop the speed from 70mph to 40mph once you drive for a bit the sign then displays the national speed limit (playing with peoples lives if you ask me )
If they started fining lane hoggers it wouldn`t be a bad thing.
There are so many of them the money raised would go a long way to paying the national debt.
And make the roads a damn sight safer.
I have recently came across the same problem on the M4 near Newport.There is a gantry that is only visible when your almost on top of it.Yes you guessed it; 50 miles an hour.Stangely nothing on the gantry a couple hundred yards before it and nothing on gantry after it. I would love to know how many have been caught out by it.These cameras are nothing but cash cows.Motorists are always easy targets and its time it was STOPPED
I agree totally. It’s the same on the M25. One Sunday I was driving home and the speed changed from 70 to 60 but the next gantry changed to 50 to 40 and back to 50 within seconds. I phoned them on the Monday to ask who was playing stupid games on the Sunday. People were hitting the brakes, speeding up and then stamping on their brakes within seconds. I also believe that these “variable Speed” areas should be banned. They cause more traffic jams, therefore more polution and more accidents. They can’t be getting many speeders when the traffic barely travels at 30 mph let alone 70 mph when they use them. I will sign your petition to get them banned altogether.
I’d totally support any initiative to take this up with Govt. and would even help in any way I could. Have you not got any MPs as BTST member? If you could sign one up as the champion of this growing pressure group at least we’d have a voice inside Westminster.
The very same thing happened to me last Thursday evening when traveling between junc 9 and 8 of the M6 to wards Birmingham when the speed dropped from 60 to 50 the car in front braked and I had to brake to avoid hitting the car only difference was he had a car and I had a 44 ton truck
There are many pressures today on an average driver, more than there ever have been. I heard on R4 recently a road expert saying it’s not speed that kills as is the mantra of Police forces but the change in speed that kills, be it a lorry pulling out without indicating or in this case gantry cameras. I am of the belief that if you have a regularly serviced car, that’s well maintained and you are awake, alert, attentive and well rested, then 70mph limit is inadequate for todays technology (not just cars but road build quality as well). I would like to see a combined group set up to respond to Government directives. Possably a combination of your self Adam but also The British Drivers Association, the RAC & AA. Let’s get the ‘Top Gear’ Team involved and get them to pay back some of that celebrity status. All to make a powerful lobby that can counter the Pro Speed Camera Groups and to also set up a national campaign to get the majority of our drivers aware of just how the motorway should be used. The biggest bug bear for me as a 36k mile a year business driver is the complete lack of understanding that the outside lane and the middle lane are not cruising lanes, they are for overtaking only and drivers should return to the nearside lane upon successful completion. I’m fed up of 70mph traffic jams in the outside lane! If you think about it the traffic cops will be mostly aiming at the out side lane, so it is another tactic for avoiding being caught by speed guns and you have a better chance of reacting if you need to. If we adopted the AutoBahn principle and it was policed properly (3 points and £100 fine as of last year), we’d release up nigh on two thirds of the Motorway network!
Lets get our roads back inour control!
As A private hire operative I need to keep to the speed limit or loose my livelihood, however the changing speed limits at a whim is a major safety hazard. Should I be involved in an accident caused by them, then I would have no hesitation in suing the HWA
As a truck driver I use the motorway “network” every day and what you are describing happens every day and night.For no apparent reason the gantry’s will suddenly display 40mph speed limits for mile after mile at 2-3 am and you never see any obstruction or accident.They are obviously out to take money from innocent motorists and,more importantly truck drivers,who are trying to earn a living.Apart from the obvious danger of a 40 ton truck suddenly braking with cars and trucks behind there is also the inconvenience of delayed deliveries.
Most frequent motorway users will have encountered traffic that is stationary in all 3 lanes then very slowly picking up speed again. In these cases you expect to see an accident up ahead or roadworks but there is nothing?
This is caused by motorists hitting the brakes in response to overhead signs with messages & speed changes, it has a domino effect. The first driver hits the brakes when they see the message or speed change, the brake lights come on then the vehicle behind does the same thing and so on. Each time the vehicle behind the one in front goes a bit slower and then at the end of the line the traffic eventually goes so slow it grinds to a standstill.
I worked this out myself after encountering many such slow moving & stationry motorway jams. I’m sure most motorists will have come to this conclusion as well.
The government funded a scientific study of this slowing down phenomenon which took 3 years of research and guess what, they came to the same conclusion, each vehicle is causing a knock on effect with a slight reduction in speed each time until finally the traffic grinds to a halt for no apparent reason.
I wonder how much tax payers money they wasted on that 3 year scientific study? And why if they have paid all this money & know the effect this is having on motorway traffic do they continue using these signs.
As always it’s about revenue collection & the persecution of the ‘Cash Cow’ motorist. Not about road safety in the slightest.
absolutely un-beleivable I can’t possibly list the in affective use at night 40mph out of the blue pedestrians in road at 60mph wtf ??? pls dont tell me all the speeding campaign of saving lives at 30mph went out the window what its now fine to hit pedestrians at 60mph on smart motorways ?? all the while it seems you can near enough guarantee out of all the gantry trying to reduce speeds to say 50 the big bingo prize is the one at 40mph I swear 28 years as an lgv driver no accidents no convictions now im expected to not only follow single file at whatever speed not being able to see anything but the vehicle in front which is lethal as nobody has any idea whats happening or which direction or lane change your gonna end up with then we have 700.000 lgv foreign drivers following dick navs that can’t see cones across a jnc so I’ve had them stop dead on the m6 infant of me god forbid there wasn’t another thousand tricks behind me then there’s the diversions one diversion they shut the m62 around 20.00 it changes every night and then its an extra 2.5 gallon of diesel per vehicle and there’s a lot extra just so they can what resurface 1 lane out of 4 then there’s fog and their isn’t then animals then absolutely anything some pri### can even dream up its pathetic im late every night by upto an hour it can’t be helped but the extra diesel its just well let’s say no wonder the planet is in meltdown ….rant rant lol but anyway the final straw I had cars right up behind me and the massive detour etc I wasn’t happy then to pull on to m60 and 40mph on the gantry there’s no way I could safely slam the brakes on this 9 points now that means after 28 yes of hassle free looking after the country im un employable by most companies thnx highways England burn in hell uts ok cos the local council will be paying my wages sat at home for 6 years wondering why I ever bothered what a joke !!°
brake suddenly risk instant death from A 40 tonne artic lorry that’s how dangerous smart moterway signs and cameras are ..
I’ve had similar situation on M1 Northbound J14-J15 on Saurday 13th Oct at 1am. The motorway was pretty empty at that time of a day, as you can imagine. Gantry displayed speed limit of 50mph, which I’ve adjusted my cruise to. Gone few hundred yards and next gantry displayed end of restrictions, so I’ve cancelled my cruise and started moving from inside lane to 3rd lane overtaking slower vehicles (there were 2 – one in inside lane and one in lane 2), I was doing around 75mph at that time. The following gantry showed reduced speed limit to 50mph (for no reason), which I’ve tried to safely adjust to, but got flashed at 71mph. From photos, it’s clear that my breaks were engaged at the time of flash. What to expect? Already have NIP (or more likely my partner has it, as the car is in her name). Will complete that, but what to expect after?