Last month the Law in the UK changed in regards to people being able to claim back their costs if they are acquitted of Motoring charges.
From October (last month) if you WIN your case:
1-
You can now only claim back your costs at legal aid rates;
2-
Only the accused can now claim their costs, and not a third party insurer, such as DriveProtect.
So what does this mean to you?
Well, from now on, no claim can be made other than for contractual costs between the accused and his/her solicitors.
(that means no recovery on behalf of third party insurers such as DP)
…and the amount you can claim back is now limited to legal aid rates of:
– £26.30 per hour for travel and waiting;
– £62.50 per hour for hearings;
– £55 per hour for preparation and attendance
As you can imagine, Lawyers are pretty p***ed off with the new rules :-)
In my opinion, the Government is legislating to let the police and CPS waste thousands of pounds on pursuing Motorists, but allowing them to screw the innocent — i.e. people who win in Court!
If you are NOT a DP Member and you use Lawyers then this will effect you significantly.
Here’s how:
Say that you use a Traffic Lawyer as below to defend you against a Motoring offence, and that their rate is £220/hour, which is quite a common rate:
1 hour initial consultation = £220
4 hours case preparation = £880
2 hours traveling time = £440
Expert witness = £300
2 hours in Court = £440
Total paid by you = £2280
This is a pretty typical cost for Speeding Defence from a decent Traffic Lawyer.
So you’ve paid £2280. Here’s what you can now claim back if you win:
1 hour initial consultation = £55
4 hours case preparation = £220
2 hours traveling time = £52.60
Expert witness = £0
2 hours in Court = £125
Total you can claim back (if you WIN!) = £452.60
Total loss to you (again, if you WIN) = £1827.40
Whatever you think about Lawyers charge out rates (believe me, I am not exactly a fan of them myself!), this is surely a complete injustice.
If you *win* your case — in other words you are proven in Court to be INNOCENT — then using a typical example like above, you would still be nearly £2000 out of pocket!
If you are a DriveProtect Member, worry not. We have done the numbers and it is not a problem to continue on the same contractual arrangement with all Members, both past and future.
This is because we have extremely favourable terms with our Lawyers because we give them such a volume of business.
This WILL definitely dent our profitability, but I would rather that than for us to start messing about changing Membership terms.
If it’s ever a problem in future then I would rather raise the premiums by a pound or two per month rather than penalising Members when they really need us due to this awful legislation by the Government.
If you are not already a Member and these changes have spurred you on to join us then give us a call on 01843 232 791 (option 2), request a callback here, or join online here.
All the best,
Adam
P.S. There is the BTST Members discount on the last link above :-)
Talex owner for 6 years still the best detector out there. Your updates are always useful. Thanks
Surely there is something in European Law which can challenge this?
I was awarded a sum after an accident none of my fault, but the N.H.S. was able to take 25% of it for hospital costs, I think this should have been a separate order of the Court. I have written to the Euro site about this, still awaitnig reply.
Hi Adam
It is typical! Goverment is always doing thsi to stop people hiring lawyers and defend their case rathern than just rolling over and accepting the fines.
However, you should also make your members aware, that if they go to court and win their case and only granted a partial costs, then they can pursue the matter in county court and take the police force that dealt with the case to court for losses!
Keep up the good work.
naz
I am a DP member. Is it not possible under these new law for us (the member)to claim back this small amount and then give say 50% of it to yourselves as a contribution for the good work you do? I know that your services are provided free under the t&c’s of membership, but as you say, normal charges are much higher than those allowed under the court costs scheme.
Surely only a matter of time before this is challenged in the European Court of Human Rights – indeed, one would expect the Solicitors or Barristers to get together to challenge it.
The grounds for the challenge would be along the lines that all innocent until proven guilty people should be able to access lawyers on a comparable basis. Eg: if I am accused of terrorism and need legal help, I should have the expectation of recovering my costs from my false accusers if found not guilty. Equally if I am falsely accused of speeding I should be able to expect to recover costs from my false accusers on the same basis. Other bases are unequal and fly in the face of normal human rights and equality. In other words it should be a level playing field irrespective of the type of offence the defendant is charged with.
Maybe one for your next informal discussions with the lawyers?
Oh great ! So now we are going the way of the USA where only the wealthy can protest their innocence – anyone else falsely accused has to plea bargain.
Yet again the motorist pays pays pays
Regards
Rob Gray
I think it would be a good idea to run a “contact your MP” to get this legislation changed back so we are not left with huge costs which may occur with even worse legislation later.
You could write a form for members to back the letter by putting down their names and addresses and send by email from your site via a link.
Regards
Christopher J Platt
Just another example of how the average citizen is being systematically disadvantaged by the corrupt practices of government and the so called ‘justice system’ that prevails in modern day Britain.
Presumably this means that you are entitled to delay any case against you until a Legal Aid lawyer is available, which to all intent and purposes is never!
Surprise surprise. Yet another example of the great British dictatorship. Do what we say NOT what we do.
I’m quite sure a government representitive would find a way of claiming all his/her costs back
Keep up the good work Adam & team.
although I’m not a member as I’m 70 yrs old, (why do you discriminate against the over 70’s?) I appreciate your stance on this dreadful ruling. I always thought that if proved innocent you should not be out of pocket. Clearly the law is ignoring that and trying to discourage innocent victims from pleading not guilty or pursue the matter in court. How many innocent people will receive fines, points or lose their licences even though innocent! It is disgusting the way the law makers are out to make money even from those who are not guilty. This practice should come under the heading of coercion. That is, I’m sure, illegal! jc
Hi Jon, there is no age limit for the basic (most popular) Membership. It’s only the Chauffeur Insurance element that is capped at 70. Unfortunately this is a requirement of the Underwriters, which I also do not understand… Adam
why is it that we as a car truck bus or van driver get victimized with front facing cameras i was lead to think the law in this country was for every one if i was on a motor bike i can go past all the front facing ones i like its about some one made stand on this law or we should all put our front number plates in the bin.
Perhaps the government are giving us drivers their new slogan. “WHEN YOU WIN, YOU LOSE, SO GIVE IN”
THANKS ADAM – VERY RE-ASSURING I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF DRIVE PROTECT SINCE YOU OPENED FOR BUSINESS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. ALTHOUGH I HAVE ONLY USED DP’S SERVICES ONCE IT WAS ALL VERY HELPFUL & THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT I AM STILL DRIVING WITH A CLEAN LICENCE. WORTH THE PREMIUM JUST FOR THE ‘PEACE OF MIND’! STEVE
As you have already more than doubled my monthly premium. I would not expect to be asked to pay more.
As I have been driving for 63 years without an accident and only now do some 3,000 local miles. I do not expect to have one very soon. Just crossed my fingers for luck.
Thanks Adam for info. I shall take out relevent parts(i.e. not mentioning I am a member of DP) & be writing to my MP with my disgust.
Very unfortunate for those charged to appear in court.
The root of the problem is the charges made by lawyers. Most lawyers are very good and charge sensible rates. It’s just the odd one or two that have become greedy.
Our youngest has just passed his law degree and tells us what is charged by firms.
Hi
I totally agree.
It seems on so many levels the Government is messing around with the public. It should be a right to recover all expenses if you are proved to be innocent of any crime. I wonder if this could be challenged legally with precedent from other area’s of the Law? Could be interesting.
All the best,
Tim.
Why not arrange a twitter link Adam? An awful lot of folks would love to know this latest stroke!
I think an e-petition should be started to stop this economic injustice to the innocent
Driver’s are being mugged.
In one month I’ve had to pay £95 to Essex Police for a speeding awareness course. Camera claimed I was speeding at 83 mph…not convinced.
Boris has fined me £60 for congestion charge on a gas powered vehicle that has Gas on the V5 and an installers certificate.
I placed 4 parking permits on my gas car in Camden. Boris has fined me because I was too stupid to understand the intricate technicalities of permit marking.
I’m voting UKIP to get out of Europe and to make Civil Servants servants of the people and not the power hungry control freaks that they are. We no longer live in a democracy, but an evil dictatorship initiated by the Lucifer’s ugly off spring…Tony Blair.
This change needs to be brought to the attention of the media/press, BBC Top Gear, Local MP etc. pressing for a reversal.
surely it is not right that one of the basic british laws (innocent until PROVEN guilty) should be more available to well off people
perhaps if costs (highly paid individuals) were not so expensive we could have JUSTICE(not to be confused with the law)for all
Hi Adam, is it ok if I post your blog on facebook and then see what sort of responses are given on there? Perhaps start a group…
Sure Ben!
I was fined as i had placed my old disabled badge picture showing, alongside the new one showing the correct details (as you should)… It is illegal to do this !!!
Hi
Another under the radar piece of legislation, if this one is not challenged, then surely it is just paving the way for all legal procecutions of the future? It wouldn’t be so bad if the legal aid system wasn’t sinking from the sheer volume of cases presented, and I was always under the impression that it was freedom of choice whom your solicitor was and that you have the right to the best defence lawyer you can afford thus freeing up the legal
Aid system!
I can only say that there must be an incredible ammount of innocent victims being dragged through the system for the government to react in such a unfair way!
Hope petition is soon to follow as all motorists are potential victims so should be an overwhelming response!!
Keep up the good work Adan and co!
Hi Adam it is like everything else in this country firstly you have the Banks who have caused the worst financial situation and brought the country to its financial knees, then they have the audacity to blame the public for their almighty c–k up and punish us with worst percentage rates you could imagine now its going to be our fault if you have some scumbag manage to scam your card and rob you so efectively the Banks are accusing its clients of defrauding them (priceless).Now you have enlightened me that we have our so called law makers making sure that we will pay no matter what even when found innocent.And as we all know there are so many things wrong in this country it beggers belief when you think about them,but the people in this country are so blase most will let it ride over them, then become very indignent and moan and groan when and if it ever affects them,I agree whole heartely that we should approach our MP’S to get this scotched thats if they find time to sit in parliment and discuss it mind you they could perhaps have a discussion on one of their many holidays etc,the other option of course is to find another Oliver Cromwell, as we all know we are called rip off Britain I wonder why?,
PS I think shortly we will all have to wear pedomiters so the Goverment can charge us for walking, garanteed it wont be a penny a mile it will be a for every step then some bright spark will have a brain wave people have two feet and double the fee Yup its bound to come.
Best regards
Mike
Of course the government will legislate for this kind of law because motoring fines especially speeding are just used to milk motorists for additional revenue for the govt & police. It has nothing to do with justice. The last thing they want is people instructing solicitors & getting unfair speeding convictions thrown out & hefty costs awarded against them. What they want is for 99% of people accused of speeding to just pay the fixed penalty so they are basically discouraging anyone accused of challenging a ticket from doing so. Have you ever tried representing yourself in a magistrates court? The magistrates are totally biased in favour of the police & they are not even legally trained. The legal clerk who is supposed to be independent isn’t & you have very little chance of winning without legal rep. You will notice that if you do decide to challenge a speeding fine in the magistrates court, the first thing the court usher will ask you on your arrival is are you non-rep? This is because if you are not represented the usher will only allocate minimal time for the hearing because they know it will be open & shut case & over within minutes & with a strong likelihood of a guilty verdict being returned. Legal aid is not available for most motoring offences so basically unless you are wealthy & can afford legal rep you are screwed. How many people can afford to instruct a solicitor for a £60 or £90 speeding fixed penalty, win the case & then pay the solicitors thousands because the costs are no longer recoverable? I went through all of this when this legislation was in the pipeline in 2008/9. The solicitor Jeanette Miller was very active in campaigning against these unfair changes, with petitions & challenges but as usual the govt ignore these. I appeared on the radio twice regarding this matter once on BBC R4 & R5 live with Jeanette Miller. I think its too late for a challenge to the law now other than trying to bring as much media attention to the unfairness of the law by mass refusal to cooperate by non payment of the fines. A bit like the poll tax revolt. Is anyone willing to coordinate this or be the first to end up in prison for non payment? Good luck if you are & be preprepared for a rough ride.