Last week, the conversion of the hard shoulder between Junction 5 and 7 on the M25 was completed.
It’s aim is to reduce congestion on one of Europe’s busiest motorways.
As part of the £129 million conversion, speed cameras have been introduced on the 20-mile stretch for the first time ever.
BUT…
The Highways Agency have refused to provide the locations or reveal how many of the cameras are in operation, in spite of Government legislation encouraging transparency when it comes to fixed speed cameras.
Hugh Bladon, spokesman for the Alliance of British Drivers, said: “These ‘stealth cameras’ are just another way to kick motorists where it hurts – the pocket.
“The Highways Agency don’t want people to know where the cameras are so they get the money.
“If there are problems with people driving in a particular area, by all means put a camera in, but at the very least make it clear where they are.”
The new cameras are the old “stealth grey” in colour, it is reported.
The new Hadecs (Highways Agency digital enforcement camera system) cameras have been placed at 46 sites on the M25 altogether with up to six cameras per site, depending on the lane configuration in the area.
The cameras are mounted on a pole just before the gantry with additional cameras mounted on the gantry leg.
Keep an eye on your speed if you are in this new widened area!
All the best,
Adam
MONEY . People do any thing for it .Highway Agency should be above this
They were flashing two weeks back. I travel around the M25 from the M3 to the A13 fairly regularly over the last 14 years. So far I haven’t received a ticket. Only a matter of time. Been stopped for speeding several times, managed to talk my way out of it so far. Mainly travel in the wee small hours, so I can put my foot down. The police that have stopped me I greet with ” what are you doing out at this time of day, you should be in bed”
I have been round this side of the m25 this morning and noticed that not all lanes have the calibration markings painted on the road. This might be a case of having not got round to doing them all yet but seemed to be painted in the 2 outside lanes only
Adam
The service you provide with these updates is invaluable.
Especially as I will be travelling that route tomorrow.
Many thanks
Robert
What is the safe speed limit on the M25. I was always informed that at 80 mph one was safe to avoid a ticket
The rule of thumb is 10% +/- 2mph. So limits:
20 +10% + 2 = 24
30 +10% + 2 = 35
40 +10% + 2 = 46
50 +10% + 2 = 57
60 +10% + 2 = 68
70 +10% + 2 = 79
Above these speeds a fixed camera will have you. You may recall the Welsh Ayotollah of speed said zero tolerance, and was reporting people at + 1mph. Not sure how that stood up in law, though,
Could this information be obtained with a ‘freedom of information’ request?
Adam .I hope the Dear Lady in my Talex Knows about this one, should I have the misfortune to do the M25 ever again.
Eric
I can’t wait till they spread to the entire motorway network and this ridiculous nonsense of people cruising round way over the speed limit comes to an end.
Adam .I hope the Dear Lady in my Talex Knows about this one, should I have the misfortune to do the M25 ever again.
Eric
Hi
Will my BTST device pick up these camera’s
Thanks
I have seen these on 2 gantries either side of Clackett Lane services. I can confirm they do work and would seem to monitor lanes 3 & 4. I went through in lane 2 at over 80 and nothing happened, but a car following me at roughly the same speed but travelling in lane 3 got the double flash.
However, there are no secondary paint marks on the tarmac so it is not clear where the distance reference comes from.
Hope that helps.
Dom.
Hello,
I have seen camera been flashing at other side of M25. I was driving from J5 to J7 but who ever driving from J7 to J5 thats where I saw camera flashing. I was before clacket lane services, so beware of camera flashing!
Also saw camera flashing between J12 & J10 of M25 today weird
Things are blooming dangerous, at night it blinds you coming the other way, and is most distracting….
Thanks Adam.Regards AA
Thank you for this information I do drive on the Motorways a lot particular on the M25 and M4. This is much appreciated.
Joy Walker
Is it known if the trigger threshold is still 2% + 2 mph? Speed is Only responsible for 2% of accidents according to DfT stats, so why all this fuss about adhering to speed
Limits unless to make up their coffers depleted by habit no tax income from some small cars.
Just another tax on motorist and what do we get for badly maintained roads, but what I would like to know is where dose all the money go that we the motorist pay to the governments coffers
It is the same old story. What is deemed as an improvement to road safety is usually a money spinner for someone else. It has nothing whatever to do with safety, speed does not kill but stupid driving actions do!
Will it stop the insurance scams from rear ending I wonder as if these extra cameras are usefully employed we should all benefit from lower premiums.
Doesn’t our elected government just absolutely HATE its electorate.
Hopefully this absolute HATE can be reflected back when this same electorate votes for UKIP and kicks this current corrupt parasitical class, with its snout in the trough, right out of office.
I was under impression that speed cameras have to painted and warning signs and visibility of that camera from at least 60m was in force. I quote
Rules And Regulations For Speed Cameras
In 2001 the law was changed so that speed cameras had to be painted yellow to ensure visibility. Many other rules were also brought in regarding speed cameras.
The regulations decree that:
Speed camera housings must be coloured yellow
Camera housings cannot be obscured, e.g. by trees, bushes or signs
Cameras must be visible from 60m away in 40mph or less zones and 100m for all other speed limit zones
Signs warning drivers of an upcoming camera and reminding them of the speed limit must be located within 1km of fixed and mobile camera sites
Signs must only be placed in areas where camera housings are located or where mobile cameras are in operation
In order to make them visible, mobile speed camera operators must wearing fluorescent clothing, and their vehicles should be marked with reflective strips
Camera sites are to be reviewed at least every six months in order to ensure that cameras are adequately visible and signed
Adam, bit of an error at the end of your post.
Should say “Keep an eye on your speed at all times wherever you are.” It is the law after all.
Remember the HA will only “get the money” from people who break the law.
Thanks Adam – great help – I’ll keep an eys out for ’em. I use M25 a lot around J 10- J 16.
all the best
Bryan
Adam, I thought at one time you bought the mapping company that the police and speed cameras were located on?
What’s up doc?
These cameras are supposed to be for “traffic management” rather than safety so can you exceed 70 mph if no speed restriction is shown on the gantry?
Hi
They are also using the same camera system on the M1 from jct 1 right upto Milton Keynes
First time you travel the section of road, go slowly and log each camera location into Talex as a Driver Hazard. The cameras can be picked out visually.
Well its strange how well the traffic ran when the averaging cameras were in place.
So the answer is very clear don’t exceed the speed limit. I am fed up with inconsiderate motorists that think the speed limit does not apply to them.
Lets have more of them. Then maybe we can all drive at the posted limit or below without idiots thinking that drivers that drive to the limit are a problem and should get out the way.
Thanks Adam as always for keeping motorists informed and up to date.
Regards
Jan
Well done to you all at the team. I ask one question; a sat nav does warn in advance of an approach to a camera, are the new one’s detectable?
Kind regards
J
I was queuing yesterday heading to Gatwick. In a two minute period 10 cars were flashed on the opposite carriageway, with very little traffic.just one big cash cow.
Hi What about the new updated section of motorway M 62 from M 1 interchange to Brighouse J 25 I have been told that all the gantries have camers and per lane and they include recording and issuing fixed penalty for over 70 mph is this correct and if so what is leaway margin before it is recorded ?
Hi time a releastic limit was updated as fast lane travels at 80 – 85 except for the odd lane hog @ 68 mph!
Where we stand on the above two issues.
When hard shoulder is open for use why do HGV not use it, are they excluded?
Many Thanks Mike Wylie
If the Highway agency refuse to say where these cameras are, are they breaking the law?.
One law for us , another law for government agencies.
you can actualy see the new stealth cameras working as you approach the said area anti clockwise [safe driveing one and all]
Hi Adam
Anyone got a photo showing a typical installation?
Hi Adam
The same for the new bit opened up in Hertfordshire from about jct 19 to jct 25 with hidden cameras on the gantries.
Also while im at it the Talex goes off when you are going through the variable speed cameras all the way round the m25 but not any where else i think some reconfiguring of your data may be needed.
Cheers
Can’t you obtain their locations under the freedom of information act?
Well if everyone drove within the speed limit Dave – which most of us manage to do – then the ‘cameras’ wouldn’t make any money would they, and they would have achieved their objective. But of course this is just nonsensical propaganda rubbish that the anti-cam brigade have been spouting for years, and anyone with more than two braincells can see right through it.
just another money making scheme that always hits the motorist , is there really any need to keep enstaling all these cameras ? why the highways commission finance all these cameras beats me why not invest the money in to the up keep & repair of the roads …
The cameras are on top of the Gantry, behind each lane indicator sign. You cannot see them in the direction of travel but I have seen them go off on the opposite side of the carriageway which has alerted me to their presence. I always thought that it was the law that they had to be seen as I thought that there already had been a precedent set a whe ago, which stated this fact and that’s why the cameras where changed from grey to yellow.
will these alarm our speed devices so we know where they are?
Hi, I was travelling this stretch on Saturday, May 17th clockwise and I saw several flashes from units in the overhead gantry.
I assume they were working in the opposite direction, my direction of travel, so I am expecting a letter as I was in the overtaking lane doing 70+ but not 80
All drivers to stop driving for just one day .
That would bring the country to a stand still and let the government no how much they need drivers.
We don’t need robbers and muggers catch them .
WHAT’S THE POINT IF ONE KNOWS WHERE THE CAMERAS ARE.
another revenue earner after suffering for 2 years of roadblocks i was surprised to see it finished with no fanfare suppose i will get another ticket do 50000 miles a year need camera up my a e to see them all very distracting especially now we have variable speed limits to stop the pollution maybe they should try keeping the traffic moving instead of shutting lanes for the most trivial incident rant over
Definitely can confirm they are there. Located between Junctions 4 -5 on anticlockwise side.
I was driving clockwise on Sunday and could see the camera flashes. They were some numerous I thought I was heading towards a lighting storm.
I have seen flashes from cameras hidden behind fly overs on the stretches of M25 that you have mentioned, the cameras can only be seen when driving on opposite carriageway. I was told these are average speed cameras, the grey boxes mounted on gantries take a photo, if speed is broken the cameras behind the fly over are activated, these are located about a mile ahead of the gantries. I am not very good at explaining these things, maybe you could investigate and explain it better on your site.
Thanks
Pete kloppers
Thank you. Keep up the good work
regards Barbara from ESSEX
I saw these flash on Saturday when I was biking back from Dover. Although they weren’t flashing me, I thought they were unnecessarily distracting for motorists travelling in the opposite direction. There is also a built-in biker hazard in the same area – a logitudinal tarmac seal in the centre of one carriageway which nearly sent me into a wobble. There’s a lot that could be done by way of passive safety rather than spending yet more money on cameras.
Philip. The only reason it – and other cameras – are moneymakers is because there are a significant minority who are stupid enough to donate their money. Most of us who drive though are not so dumb. And how do you know they are set to trigger at 70mph? I very much doubt that I’ll get an answer, and I think we can all assume that they are set to trigger at 79mph – ie 10%+2mph above the limit.
That should have read: The only reason they…
These new cameras are on the side off new gantrys they are set too 70mph or the speed limits warning ..there are two at moment either side off clacket lane services, between jct5 & 6 , I first saw them in action the week before the roadworks finish ..there not visible as there too the side …it’s a money maker ..
Linda. Re your strongly held view that cameras should be visible so as to deter people from speeding etc, there is another way of looking at it. If the speeders never know when or where they are likely to get copped by a camera, then they are all the more likely to drive within the speed limits most of the time, and fatal and serious injury collisions reduced as a consequence.
One of the main arguments the anti-camera lobby have been making against speed cameras for many years – and about the only one that has some truth to it – is that people just slow down for the camera and then speed up again (and some – but not by any means all -DO). Well if they were hidden and they didn’t know where they were…… and yet it was the anti-cam lobby who vociferously campaigned for them to be visible and painted bright yellow with warning signs etc back in 2002!
And someone else asked the question: “Is the threshold still 2%+2mph? Well it never-ever was 2%+2mph……or were you just trying to put it in peoples’ heads that that IS what it is, with the objective of making people think how absurd it is to have such a small threshold. The threshold is – and has been for many many years – 10%+2mph above the posted limit.
We’ve all at some time or other put our foot down on the old accelerator but surely WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS. If we get caught and fined (with points) then we’ve done the crime. SPEED KILLS! However, under no circumstance should these cameras be hidden from view. They should be there as an aid to prevent speedsters in the first place and not as a means to build up the coffers of the authorities. Common sense should prevail at all times and yet the interpretation of common sense is often loaded on the side of those who have the power.
These cameras are also located on northern part of M25 and on M1 north of M25 on new widened section.
As they are hung on gantry upright to side of hard shoulder how can they accurately measure some ones speed 5 lanes away ?
I think it is also about time they started catching people doing only 50mph on the motorway, and people hogging the middle and outside lanes. Yes we should all be sticking to the speed limit but when you get people doing only 50mph on the motorway because they are too scared to go any faster, they should stick to the A roads as they are the ones who cause the accidents together with the people who decide to break for no reason, I see people all the time, there is nothing in front of them and suddenly they put their foot on the brake, why??????, if people drive properly there would be a lot less accidents on the roads. In Germany they travel on the Autobahn at 80-90mph and they don’t have half as many accidents, so start driving properly and the cameras would not be needed.
Hi Adam Thank you for the info but I hope that by now these sites will have been updated by Wikango users onto the satellite?
Really appreciate your blogs – keep them coming. They are of great use to your users
i think we as the motorist must adhere to the speed limit, but this is no excuse for stealth camera.I my area in the west midlands, every time any improvements are done on the traffic lights camera are put up.
Thanks again for the information adam
I to was flashed by the gantry camera near junction five heading towards Dartford on Sunday the 11th of May at just after 9pm, have to say the intensity of the flash scared the living daylights out of me!! saw a lot of flashes on the opposite side as well, and like others on this blog thought that was a distraction, but it has had the desired effect, have looked at the speedo a lot more when I am on dual carriageways, not sure if the lines were painted, and as I have not heard anything as yet, I might be lucky, but then again I might not!!but have to say I am disgusted with all the money that has been spent on these works, that they might have resurface all the running lanes and not just those they altered.
To be successful any prosecution for exceeding the speed limit requires corroboration BY LAW. Without that CPS will not take it. Normally that is achieved by The readings from the camera detection beam corroborated the marks (Time and distance) on the road. If there is NI marks then that is not possible. And in any case the defence would or should ask for the calibration certificates of ALL measuring equipment and in addition opportunity to check those marks themselves clearly one cannot do that on a motorway. That in itself denies the defence of a fair trial. End of prosecution. Hope this helps.
Travelling east towards Clackett Lane area on the outside lane with auto speed set to 70 mph, one of these cameras went off what seemed right next to my head and both startled and temporarily blinded me. It was a distraction that should not be allowed. Health and Safety obviously does not apply to the Highways Agency.
I believe Gregory Thibeault (May 20, 2014 at 12:56 pm) is wrong. Traffic flows when people do not brake. A flash of brake lights causes over reaction from many others and an ensuing peristalsis effect. Average speed instructions or cameras seem to keep traffic flowing but in many cases, dangerously bunched up because many people keep the law to the letter and do not driving appropriately, e.g. staying exactly alongside another vehicle like a big truck instead of going past and into free space and letting others do the same. I find the politically correct emphasis on ‘speed’ as an evil ridiculous. I would rather be missed by an object travelling fast than hit by one going slowly. Train people to drive appropriately. Alternatively, ban driving altogether. That would cut out a huge amount of road traffic accidents!
If these cameras are hidden, painted grey not yellow are they legaly enforcable or not? Perhaps your organisation could find out the legal position?….I agree with those who say, ‘if you don’t speed you don’t get fined’. Now if we all stuck to the speed limits, the ‘speed’ cameras would fade away….
You should be keeping an eye on your speed wherever you drive, not just where you think there might be a camera. That way you wouldn’t need to know where the cameras are, would you
Having 42 yrs experience as a SERIOUS CRASH UNIT Investigation Officer and Civilian Training Officer for members entering this vocation SPEED is a minority factor within the equation. If Government and sometimes Police too state that propaganda of Speed kills, then justify it in figures!. The word speed can refer to a speed from 1 mph to infinity. Well I deal with physical evidence and three factors the driver, vehicle and environment. Any collision involving a fatality I have always instilled and train individuals to treat such as a murder enquiry unless evidence dictates otherwise. As for speed being the deciding factor for accidents, very few in fact are, this is another red herring spouted out by Government Agencies listening to people who work in offices having no experience of visiting, having been on scene of a collision. A few years ago the Government issued to Police Forces a Statistics Form to be completed when attending Traffic Collisions. So many questions requested and fill in boxes? Now some questions may be answered accurately, in many no evidence was available to respond. Yet these time wasting Academic questions would require a response, and slanted so a response was what the Questioner wished. Totally fallible and utter waste of time. Certainly 15 to 20 minutes of a Police Officers time diverted to form filling for the Home Office Statistics Dept. This is where all the up rational decisions are being made and with now the Highways Agency and Department for Transport. Traffic Officers are rarely seen patrolling the Motorways now, in effect only called to attend injury Traffic Collisions. To conclude. The majority of accidents are caused they just don’t happen. Many caused by elderly drivers who adopt a couldn’t care less attitude, Emerging into the path of another driver at road junctions not assessing the speed of the vehicle on a major road. Then there are the very young lads and girls not paying attention, showing off to their mates in the vehicle performing most stupid manoeuvres undercutting in a two lane carriageway, when the outside lane driver suddenly decides to go to the appropriate lane after remaining in the wrong lane for over 2 to 3 miles. Thus a collision. The offending driver then stating “He / She was going like a bat out of hell”. When the job is done correctly and witnesses interviewed they confirm the cause. That is now a good case for BOTH drivers to be reported for careless driving even Reckless on the part of the undertaking driver. Sadly that word could be shortened to Undertaker….because invariably these incidents if occurring on a Motorway may well result in a fatality. It is NOT speed that kills it is the Iack of attention, road and lane disciple. If drivers would only use the maxim “you drive to Arrive not drive to become a fatality statistic”. When you drive especially in country rural roads, bear the following in mind, “you drive to what you can see, what you cannot see, and that WHICH YOU CAN REASONABLY EXPECT TO DEVELOP”. This statement explained in simple terms means. As a driver you know the vehicle can negotiate a blind bend, you know you can drive it round that bend! But on this occasion is it safe to do so? Is there only enough room for one vehicle? to pass. If another vehicle is coming the other way and a pedestrian is walking , then you suddenly are confronted with a vehicle coming the other way that cannot stop in time, the chances are the pedestrian is struck causing major impactive injuries even resulting in another fatality!. This could be one accident they would put down to speed, yet it is NOT it is a drivers lack of attention and carelessness. It is predictable, it is foreseeable and it should be expected. I just hope this explanation may assist my fellow drivers out there, many of us who take great pride in our driving, and constantly up our skills on the roads each day. Yet with the Government constantly lowering the numbers of Traffic Police Officers, they are now less likely to stop and educate the wayward drivers, and prosecute those who are A DANGER to ALL other road users. I shall not hold my breath for the the day to arrive when my services as a Serious Crash Investigator will not be required. Lastly remember the Officer who has to attend the “CALL ON” to a family member and state.”It is my sad duty to tell you that your ……….has been involved in a fatal road, (rail, marine or air accident), as a result of their injuries at the scene they have since died”. Drive safely.
I was prosecuted a few years ago for 66mph in a 60mph limit, in Cumbria, so I think the “10% + 2mph” threshold is no longer used.
Paul Butler you are correct in your comments.The ACPO guidelines are ” speed limit + 10% + 2mph.
Hi i was traveling today on m25 to london today and noticed the camera flashing on the opposite side of m25 gantry sign it was on the corner of the sign.does anyone no if this was flashing me or isit the camera on my side that catches you.much appreciated
Dave did u get a fine the same one flashed me last night
I was driving on m25anti clockwise doing 40coming toward a gantry near clacked lane ju6 the speed limit up ahead changed on the gantry to 70i so I started to accelerate and got the double flash and now have a intention to prosecute notice why wasn’t the camera speeds matching the speed signs ,”’I’m really pissed off about this
I have received 5 tickets in one week between J13->J14 of the M25. This was variable speed camera. I don’t recall any of them as the highest speed I was doing was 72 MPH